The Other Side of the Couch: Negative Self Talk.

by

subtitle: yes, we’re taking an oatcation.

When I first announced the whole Oprah shebang (technical term) more than a few of you panicked that Id become all Oprah praise all the time.

Which led me to start The Other Side of the Couch.

A chance to continue the conversation started on the Great & Mighty O’s stage and make it our own.

Please to enjoy a sortatwisted Other Side of the Couch.

A conversation Oprah did NOT intend to spark—-but one which MizFit simply could not let go…

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtgXOqNa-U

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Comments

  1. Hmmm, this is a good question.

    I think Oprah was just being herself and honest about her feelings, which of course helps her to connect with her audience.

    I am one of those who doesn’t believe in celebrity role models. One of the things I try to live by is “being a role model to myself”. I don’t feel that people in the public eye should have to live their lives that way. Strangers shouldn’t be role models – parents, your preacher, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, teachers…those people you know are the ones that should be role models.

  2. Wow. Good question.

    On the one hand, I think it’s sad that someone who has accomplished so much in her life would make a comment that implies having a less-than-perfect body almost negates all that success.

    On the other hand, the comment could also come across as despite all that she has accomplished, she is still “just like us”.

    Honestly, I don’t think I would have even noticed the comment because I DO tend to think of her as “just like us”. And I don’t ever see celebrities as role models.

  3. I think that for the little children that idolize her she needs to be careful what she says. Especially when it comes to body image.

    I also think that for herself she needs to be careful what she says. She needs to be kinder to herself!

  4. YAY IM HOME and *yay* BACK WITH THE BAND (details/the SILLYscoop on my trip in tomorrow’s post).

    Irene? I totally agree with this:

    One of the things I try to live by is “being a role model to myself”.

    in the Im trying to be my own superhero way & yet I know how long it took me to get here (YEARS) and wondered about those not there yet?

    (and as I said mainly the younger generation…the girls I work with)

    love, Mrs JB, that you said youd not have even noticed the remark!

    and Natalia? that was the bottom line for me really. YOUR LAST SENTENCE.

    It made me sad for HER more than anything.

    Miz, who is glad to be home in the warmth (sorry Chicago. love you. love my sunshine.)

  5. I think that her upper arms are on camera for almost the whole show – every day – because of the head shots. So she probably has a disproportionate feeling about them.

    I wear sleeveless all the time in real life – but would NEVER wear sleeveless on camera (Mizfit yours do look lovely on camera!).

    I think that part of HER, her human-ness just slipped out.

    And, I have heard her talk about how great her waist is – many times. And I have heard her talk about her pretty shoes for on camera – and how great she looks in them all the time too.

    I don’t know if you remember – but when she was surprising Tom Cruise’s #1 fan – she appeared on camera in her bath robe with no makeup and undone hair. I think THAT is the best thing I have ever seen. She was totally herself – raw – and didn’t think a thing about it.

  6. Welcome Home!!!!

    Me too! I didn’t see the episode, but when I heard you read what she said about herself, it made me sad for her!


  7. thanks for this vickie:

    I don’t know if you remember – but when she was surprising Tom Cruise’s #1 fan – she appeared on camera in her bath robe with no makeup and undone hair. I think THAT is the best thing I have ever seen. She was totally herself – raw – and didn’t think a thing about it.

    I did remember and wasnt entirely trying to play devils advocate/spark conversation with the video only a little bit.

    and you make a REALLY GOOD POINT in that appearing sans-makeup for many of us women is FAR more gutsy than a little arm baring.
    anyone else feel that way?

    and she did that willingly & seemingly without a care.

    Miz.

  8. I saw the episode, and I actually related to her!! I also loved the shirt that this particular woman was wearing because it was something that I would wear.

    Although I’m terribly overweight, I think I have a pretty good self image. (In fact, does anyone know if there is a condition that is just the opposite of anorexia, because I think I have it!) 🙂 That said, I rarely go sleeveless. Not because I don’t like myself, but because I know that there are more flattering parts of me that I should be highlighting.

    I also have “big, fat arms” and although I don’t worship Oprah, I do admire her for being more “normal” then most Hollywood types. I appreciate where she has come from, the struggles she has had, and the fact that she can relate to many of us because she has been there.

    (boy, I haven’t commented in forever, and look what happens when I do!!) 🙂

  9. I dunno. I’d probably think less of her for pretending to feel something she doesn’t, if that makes sense. Oprah is so confident and positive about other aspects of her life that maybe–just maybe–someone would watch and think, well even SHE has something she doesn’t like about herself and yet here she is laughing, talking, thinking, *doing*. She accepts it and moves on. It’s not like big arms (or flabby belly or thin eyebrows or anything of that sort) are a character flaw or indicate a lack of intellect.

    It kind of goes to the link you provided about women warriors, although to a lesser scale. It’s OKAY not to be perfect and to acknowledge that (embrace it even?). As long as it doesn’t keep you from doing what’s truly important in your life.

    I’m not explaining my thoughts well. If you’re going to have these discussions, you could at least wait until I’ve had caffeine. 🙂

  10. I agree with you Miz and not because it’s your site.
    I think that Oprah should be able to say and think whatever she wants OFF THE CAMERA but perhaps should edit out? think a little more? what she says ON.

    wanted to or not she is a role model for many young girls (and I think wanted to because of her school for girls in south africa) and I would hate for them to think that they should not wear sleeveless anything because their arms look like or are bigger than Oprahs.

    just my thought.

  12. GOOD G-D I LOVE YOU GUYS.
    (were your collective ears burning as I sung your praises to the Quaker Peeps this weekend? Smart, savvy, snarky, silly, sassy, strong and STUNNING. That’s the Bumbling Band in a nutshell and Im honored you make the time to come here and chat)

    this:

    It’s OKAY not to be perfect and to acknowledge that (embrace it even?). As long as it doesn’t keep you from doing what’s truly important in your life.

    Although I’m terribly overweight, I think I have a pretty good self image.

    (WELCOME BACK KIM!!)

    Is, IMO, how we women shall change the next generation of girls.

    SHOW them how to be comfortable in their own skin. How to be UNAPOLOGETICALLY themselves—not matter what the (fingerquote) vessel (unFQ) looks like.

    ok.
    Im ALL kinds of passionate this morning (CAPS MUCH? I know…).

    it was that kind of a surroundedbyamazingpeople weekend.

    Miz.

  13. I think that we have swung too much towards “you’re ok you’re beautiful as you are” and that it is hurting us and our children. It is so not ok to be obese. My friend went to the doctor the other day for her 50,000 mile check up, and had an angioplasty the NEXT DAY. Her doctor told her to lose 100 pounds and basically change her whole life (which I’m kinda glad because I want her to be around). Oprah needs to be able to be real and say “I do not like this, it is not good, and I am going to make a change to be healthier.” Because if she says it is not OK, maybe those who idolize her will start to make those healthier choices. Is it negative self chatter or is it something inside you that knows that something has to change?

  14. I say let her be “normal”. And it’s her show and venue to be fabulous and one of us all at the same time. Could she have followed up here arms statement with some kind of affirmation – sure. But the show wasn’t about her and sometimes she talks TOO much about her own self instead of letting the guest have their time… Oprah is all kinds of out there and if she doesn’t like her arms -oh well. As for those girls – they need to know Oprah can be a wonder woman and real. (If they are watching Oprah and idolizing, God bless ’em. They could be watching Paris Hilton and her BFF. ~~~~shudder~~~~)

    And can’t too much self-love become arrogance if it goes unchecked. That’s not at all appearling. Perhaps there NEEDS to be a balance so we don’t become all full of ourselves….just a thought…even for Oprah who has been all over on the scales and size charts in her lifetime.
    I know people who won’t wear shorts because they hate their legs. They’d rather swelter in the heat and humidity than be comfortable. I don’t care what people think about my legs and such as long as I’m comfortable. I think I even inspired one of these people to get and wear some shorts.

    ~~stepping down~~

  15. Don’t watch O. save for the last minute or two as I wait for the news. That said, I think she was reminding us that she is one of us and not perfect. Anyone being idolized has a responsibility to remind the commonfolk that he/she is just a human.
    While celebrity worship et al is wrong and stupid it happens and them as is worshipped need to be mindful of what they say and do.

  16. GOOD QUESTION for discussion.
    my answer is easy: I wouldn’t invite America into my head because I am not yet filled with self love.

    I do think that Oprah needs to be both real and real careful what she says because so many women and girls (and men???) look up to all she has accomplished.

    I am not sure how one could strike this balance though.

    I think she is doing her best and what she said about not liking her arms is real.

  17. I doubt she even realized that she said it that way. I can only imagine how hard it is for her…constantly being scrutenized. Should we be looking to her? ABSOLUTELY NOT! But, shoulds don’t matter…what matters is that people do look up to her. Even young girls.
    I hope she addresses this issue (maybe you should email her crew and let them know!) so that she can say her piece. I don’t wear shorts for that reason, so I definately understand – but I’m not in the spotlight as a role model in the same way that she is. And, I don’t talk much about why I don’t – I just say that I prefer pants.

  18. Popping in and out.

    wanted to say how great it was to meet you yesterday in person, Linda.

    more on that (and my flashing of Chicago) tomorrow.

    Miz.

  19. This is such a hot button issue for me – I go off into lectures about sleeveless/fat arms every summer. So many women make comments similar to Oprah’s, and to me this is just going too far. Now we have to worry about ARMS? And whether our pedicure is perfect and our skin perfect and no stubble on the legs and for God’s sake don’t dare SWEAT, and on and on and on and ON.

    I don’t know what motivation Oprah had to say that, but I remember her talking about her arms back when she lost weight the second time – apparently her upper arms stayed quite large. So it’s been an issue to her for years. I get the Everywoman aspect of it, even role models aren’t perfect. The only aspect that bothers me is her saying she won’t wear sleeveless shirts because of it. If she’d just said she didn’t like her arms, fine, but the rest of the thought is the sort of self-punishment and obsessive concern with appearance that plagues women.

    I’m not going to cover up a part of my body because it might offend someone else! I’m not going to take a census every time I go into public to make sure everyone is OK with my arms, my legs, my feet, my hands… keep doing that and you end up in a burkha.

    We don’t OWE anyone else ANYTHING regarding our appearance.

    [ok, I warned that it was a hot button for me!]

  20. I think her response was normal but I do agree that I’d like to see her follow a negative with a positive.

    Think about how many times we see celebrities and their cellulite plastered on a tabloid in the grocery store check out. Her weight and body are constantly being watched and personally I know that as I lose weight these arms of mine won’t bounce back and I’ll probably always avoid sleeveless but I also know that self worth isn’t tied to the clothes I wear, the size of my body or the car I drive.

  21. I love Oprah for all that she is and all that she’s done….howEVER, I do agree that perhaps she should choose her words wisely when speaking about her body image. We all look to her for the answers (or maybe that’s just me?!) and when we hear negative things like this, it’s natural to look at ourselves and question our own bodies. I guess that is one reason I’m glad I’m not a celeb…I don’t think they all try or want to be role models (wasn’t that a Charles Barley ad?), but they are simply because they are successful and in the spotlight.

    Welcome back!!! 🙂

  22. Welcome home, Carla! Can’t wait for the full report!

    I don’t watch Oprah.
    Don’t watch Paris, either.

    Of the two of them, I would rather see O as a role model – she has accomplished so much and come so far.

    Personally, I think one of the reasons she has come so far is because she is able to relate to us as an everywoman; and show me a woman who doesn’t have an issue with some part of her body, and I’ll show you a liar.

    Oprah DOES have big arms – it’s part of who she is. And if she doesn’t go sleeveless because of that, fine. She is entitled to say whatever she wants about her own body – role model be damned. (I would not model my life upon a celebrity, but I understand where you are coming from with regards to young girls….) It must be hell to be constantly monitoring oneself to make sure one doesn’t say or do something that a bazillion people would copy.

    Thank God the Bag Lady doesn’t have that problem.

    …What? She does? Her enormous fan base hangs on her every word, awaiting her next fashion statement?

    Oops, guess these ratty ol’ jeans and flannel tops have got to go……

  23. I think Oprah’s poor body image has been a defining part of both her character and her show since day 1. In choosing to make her struggle public, I think she both helps and hinders. On one hand, she makes us feel normal. On the other hand, being Oprah, she often sets the norms. That said, I think she bodysnarks a lot less than many female celebs.

  24. I think “should” is a dangerous word. Yeah, she shouldn’t have to think about everything she says every moment, and no, we definitely shouldn’t look to celebrities to be role models. But “shouldn’t” does NOT equal “don’t”, and while I hope I am enlightened enough and self-aware enough (NOW) to not do so, I can tell you for sure that the same is not true of young girls and young women around the world. So, while she shouldn’t have to watch every word she says – the truth is, she does. Particularly on camera. And this is not news to her, and I think most of the time she’s very conscientious about it…

    That said, she probably didn’t think anything about it. I mean, sure, most women hate their arms so it’s a natural enough thing to say, and there are tons of women who won’t go sleeveless because of it.

    But I do think it’s sad. Because nobody – and no body – is perfect, and I’m sick and tired of the mentality that you have to hide your imperfections. We all have them, and as I’ve said before, there’s no reason to swelter and suffer in 90+ degree weather because you don’t have gorgeous arms. If people don’t want to see my batwings, they can look away. 🙂

    As for Oprah – I’m just saddened that with all she’s accomplished and achieved, she still talks to herself this way. Which, I guess, is exactly what you’re talking about, Miz. We are so unkind to ourselves – and maybe it should be reassuring that even the Mighty O does the same thing, but it’s not. It makes me hurt for her a little.

    V.

  25. I don’t think that celebrities should bash their bodies. When I read things that say “Oprah hates her arms” and “Britney thinks her thighs are fat” (and that was pre-Federline), it makes me feel like I’m never going to be happy with my own body, because if these women, who have trainers and nutritionists and chefs and plastic surgeons and more free time than most people can’t love their bodies, then what hope is there for everyone else.

  26. reading. nodding (and YES, Ill admit, at times shaking my head in disagreement). LOVING that you guys never hold back.

    I struggle a lot with precisely what my views are on this but keep returning to the fact that, FOR ME (and not MizFit but CARLA), life is not about the vessel.

    I want to keep my vessel in good shape so that it EXTENDS MY LIFE but there is so much more than slim arms or zero wrinkles.

    A few of you have already emailed me saying:

    you dont get it because you love your arms!!

    I do get it.

    I have raging crows feet, broken blood vessels, wrinkles that botox would erase *easily*—-as Im repeatedly told. people have no inner-monologues—but for me it is FINALLY (at.very.long.last.) about who I am not the container Im in.

    I so get the temptation to self-bash. Im just working on resisting.

    Miz.

  28. I guess we are all a mix of values with our self talk. It’s all about balance, I don’t think it’s an all or non thing.

    Great information!!

  29. First off, it sounds like you had a great time on your trip and I am so glad!

    Second, I think Oprah just slipped. I think that for the most part she understands that she has a large impact on her viewing audience and that she works hard to be a good role model. I think on this day she probably just let the thought roll without thought. I think it would have been great if she had followed it up with a positive thought (like you suggested) but probably didn’t have time/the reaction time to correct it.

  31. Good point, Miz. I tend to side with the though that Oprah was implying we all have things that we might not like about ourselves, but that doesn’t mean we should dwell on them – just work around them and make the best of it. But I agree she didn’t give off the best message. And everything is relative. I think it’s hard to always be in the “love me as I am” mindset. Sometimes we need to remind ourselves with a little self TLC.

    Kath

  32. I think she was just being human and said what she felt. Which has always been one of her defining traits!

    However, comments like that, whether they come from a celebrity or a coworker/friend/sister, can have both good and bad outcomes. On the one hand, hearing that another person, especially an accomplished person, has flaws and insecurities makes us feel more human and more okay about ourselves. We don’t have to be perfect to succeed in life!

    On the other hand, casual comments like that can have negative effects if they’re heard by someone suffering from low self-esteem. After all, if the successful person doesn’t feel good about herself, what right do I have to feel good about myself?

    We, both men and women, can be so hard on ourselves for so many reasons. With the celebrity-obsessed and body-obsessed media, it’s hard to take an objective look at ourselves and see how great we really are, physically and otherwise. Our “imperfections” and “flaws” are what make us unique and set us apart from everyone else. Not what make us less than the next person.

  33. I do think it shows that she’s human. On the other hand i also believe that she’s showing the body image negativity in front of millions of people including very young people whose minds are very open to all things they see and hear!! And you definitely don’t want to promote bad self image issues to young people or any people really.

  34. I also think we toss around the word “hate” too casually. I am discouraged by my cottage cheese ass and therefore do not wear stretch pants to showcase the terrain. I HATE, well, hate.

    Botox? No thank you. Is there something wrong with aging? I don’t wanna be a mannequin grandma. Everyone gets a chance at youth, and then you move on. Gracefully. With a good moisturizer containing Retin A and collagen.

    Yeah, BagLady, you’re my fashion role model, blue eye shadow, red pill box, and all… lol xoxo

  35. Welcome back, MizFit!

    As for Oprah, I’ve never watched her show (I’m more a late night PBS Mystery type of girl), so I feel a little wary about stepping into a discussion about her being a role model when I know so little about her and her show.

    I’d let her comment slide b/c I think it is just impossible to vet everything coming out of your mouth everyday no matter how conscious of your audience you are. (and if the show is taped in front of an audience, can it be edited later?) If she is like me, she probably went home and started beating herself up over saying something that could hurt other people.

  36. If I were discussing bikinis, I would think nothing of mentioning that I would never wear one because of my loose, stretch-marked baby scars. I’m not being sad or self-loathing about it, merely stating a fact.

    Besides mentioning that kids should not have celebrities as role models, I’ve got to ask–do kids actually watch the Oprah show?

  37. quickie because, as you might imagine it is ALL KINDS OF CRAZY at Casa Miz this morning.

    Marianne? I hear you saying I need Retin A.
    And collagen.

    Yes I’m being silly but your comment was a good reminder to me that what *I* hear isn’t necessarily what others hear/pick up on (the O arms comment) or, at times, even what’s being said!

    And Dragonmamma? I laughed at your comment as by kids I meant some young (6th grade?) but more the ‘kids’ of 17 or so.

    Miz.

  38. People take what they want from Oprah. I have heard people say many times, “If I were rich and had a trainer and a cook, I would be thing.” I rarely hear people say, “Losing weight is really hard, look at Oprah, she has a personal chef and a trainer and her weight goes up and down pretty dramatically, so I should be easier on myself about it.” Oprah struggles like everyone else. I think she was probably just saying how she felt at that moment. It is sad to hear.

  39. Just because she’s Oprah doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have her own insecurities, and I don’t think that she should be shamed for sharing them with us. This weekend, I was having a conversation with some friends about spinning, and my friend suggested that I get padded spin pants, and the first thing I asked was how bulky they were, because “Baby already got back, and she doesn’t need more.” What’s wrong with that? I love my butt, but seriously? I know what I don’t need to highlight.

  40. I wonder if she even made the comment intentionally. I didn’t see the show but my guess is that she sincerely dislikes her arms and was speaking truthfully of her own insecurities. It must be hard NOT to be insecure when the tabloids are constantly pointing out every pound of weight she loses and gains.

    At the same time, the Oprah Empire is built on her persona and the fact that she is a larger than life role model. She WANTS us to attempt to emulate her. Let’s face it, her image is on the cover of her own magazine every single issue, so I don’t think we can cut her too much slack. She obviouslly wants to influence people in a positive way, so she should be very aware of her power to exert a negative influence as well.

  41. I think that it shouldn’t matter – and it doesn’t to me. But there are many many people that a comment like that would and will effect.

  42. all this reminds me of being in therapy and trying to figure out another person’s motivation/what’s going on in their head (not that I’d know ANYTHING about that).

    Oh for a brief glimpse into the mind of the Oprah.

    Miz

  43. I don’t idolize Oprah, but I have a soft spot for her (no, that does not mean I subscribe to O magazine, but still). I appreciate some of the ups and downs she shares. And somehow she does it without coming across as a total trainwreck like many celebs who share their foibles with the public. It’s a rare gift.

    That being said, I think her phraseology in the segment you’re talking about was what would irritate me at least briefly, had I been watching. “Big”? “Fat”? She could have just said “my arms aren’t my favorite feature” or something less vicious toward herself.

  44. You know… one thing that jumped to my mind was the fact that she was commenting on a shirt that she liked because she would FEEL COMFORTABLE in it. I think we all have a favorite pair of jeans because they flatter our butt – or a shirt that fits just right and we feel good when we wear it, etc. and that’s cool. I actually think there is something to be said for understanding your body and then wearing things that flatter your shape and make you feel your best. Don’t we all feel so much more confident when we know we are dressed in something we look good in? Am I being vain or shallow here?

    Where I’m coming from is that I know there are certain “looks” that don’t make me FEEL my best for whatever reason. So – I try not to wear them. I think the comment by Oprah could be taken a couple of different ways… and playing devil’s advocate here – perhaps she helped people with “larger” arms discover a sexy shirt that they will feel good in??

  45. Hear what you are saying about Oprah being a role model…At the same time I think she should be allowed to be herself and to be honest.

    It’s great that you are able to live your life and not worry about the “container” (as you put it), but many of us are not there yet (may never be). I’m guessing that Oprah is so used to being on camera at this point that she often just says what pops into her head (I say guessing because I don’t watch the show). It would be hard to be on guard all the time; I think I’d rather see her be herself.

  46. I just figure she’s got her issues like anyone else. I read her exercise fitness book a while back and came to realise just how much of an issue she had with self confidence and loving her body.
    Sure she’s in the public eye, (and I have issues with Oprah, I’ll admit) but everyone has things about themselves they don’t like. I think someone in the public eye as much as her has a lot on her mind. If it pops out every once int a while I don’t mind…lets me know she’s human and that despite it all she worries about wierd stuff like that too…:)

  49. javachick IM SO GLAD YOU SAID THIS:

    it’s great that you are able to live your life and not worry about the “container” (as you put it), but many of us are not there yet (may never be).

    not just for the fact that it has taken me years (Id say *TWENTY ONE*) to get here but that of course I still have my ‘things’ (as I like to call em. dont love the word which rhymeth with TISSUE.)

    this past weekend? GOOD LORD Miz was a bundle of IM NOT WORTHY.

    *I dont get enough traffic. why was I invited?
    you people can blog for a living? what am I doing wrong?

    *Im so not worthy of being here?

    *I dont understand the technology (twitpics? who on earth is that?!). Im a complete moron. These people are so smart. why on earth was I invited?!

    and on and on.

    so I do understand what you are saying and that I expect a lot from Oprah.
    in the sense that someone telling me that my irrational (IMO totally rational) beliefs above are ones I should just get over.

    man, I appreciate all of you. your time. your insights. your honesty. I would not have it any other way.

    THANK YOU!

    Miz.

  50. It’s so frustrating to read through comments that go on about what a great question this was when I don’t know what the question is! Hehe. Youtube video link? (I was hoping that the work computer would be nice and show me the video since my laptop at home does not. But apparently the work computer doesn’t want to show it either.)

  51. She’s human- I think that is the appeal that she offers to so many. Not that it gives her license to massive public self lynching- but to let that humanness slip from time to time seems only expected. It is when a really skinny/beautiful/successful Hollywood type makes disparaging remarks about her weight or looks that throws me. I think of my daughters seeing that and having friends who hold the bar that high and it infuriates me!

    I totally would have noticed that comment because stuff like that sticks out to me. I am not the negative self talker, so I think when other women do it, I notice it even more. I sometimes wonder if things are said so they are making the statement of something like, “i know what you already know. I am well aware that my arms are fat”. Not that I want to hear it, but ya know.

  52. ok..i may be slammed, but being a “say it like it is gal” i have (mostly) gotten used to it.

    compared to people who are in wonderful physical shape (like you MizFit!) Oprah’s arms ARE fat.

    as are mine.

    i rarely go sleeveless (only when in hawaii, i don’t know why lol). My upper arms have batwings, and honestly, are gross. When I get to my goal weight, if i decide to get anything nipped or tucked, my arms will be first and foremost.

    I *know* for a fact my arms are gross. I have seen them in pictures, and i have personally witnessed 2 people in my adult life cringe when i waved my arm while speaking (i’m french canadian, this happens all the time lol) and wearing a short sleeved shirt. Its a fact of my life, and I accept that.

    i’m not an Oprah fan, nor an Oprah hater. But I figure if she feels her arms are fat, and wanted to point out that sheer sleeves is a way to go to try to help feel better about yourself while dressed up, good for her.

    just my humble 2 cents. Which based on the TSX is really only worth 1 😉

  53. Oh, Miz…don’t get me started. I could write a book on this topic…oh, wait…I just did ;-).

    Oprah’s not a mom, but she’s like a mom (or a wiser older sister) to lots of women who watch her show. Nobody’s perfect and we all have parts of ourselves that we don’t like. Do we have to hide them or our feelings about them? Not necessarily, but I think we need to be thoughtful about how we criticize ourselves in the presence of young girls (or, in Oprah’s case, in the presence of viewers who look up to her).

    I didn’t see the show, but I would have preferred to see a discussion about body image and how we all have parts of ourselves that we don’t like, during which Oprah could have used her feelings about her arms as an example and showed her viewers that women don’t need to have perfect bodies to be happy, successful or both.

    But blurting out, “I never wear sleeveless because I have big, fat arms”…not so good.

    Both scenarios involve expressing feelings about a perceived body imperfection, but as you can see, they’re vastly different.

    I think we all — celebrity or not — have a responsibility to the next generation of girls (and to each other) to talk about ourselves and our bodies in a positive way (which doesn’t necessarily mean all body love, all the time). Learning to say, “I’m not perfect, but I’m healthy and happy and you can be, too” (or, some variation of “I’m perfectly imperfect”) to ourselves, each other and our daughters is the only way we can begin to change our toxic body image culture.

    Whew…big soapbox this morning…stepping down now.

  54. I watched the same show. When Oprah commented on her big fat arms I thought she was just sharing her own physical insecurities with the world. She was sharing, plain and simple. My next thought was, “heck, I could handle having big fat arms if I had a BIG FAT bank account!”

  55. Well, I sympathize with everybody. I don’t like wearing short sleeves because my arms don’t look really healthy right now. Wouldn’t wear a bikini either!!! I wouldn’t mind having big upper arms if they weren’t all white and fluffy looking.

    And I keep scrutinizing people on my commutes and what they’re wearing: frequently I find myself thinking, GOSH if I had that big a butt I certainly wouldn’t wear those pants. My bad.

    But I am trying to be less judgmental about myself as well as others–sometimes I see someone with NOT the accepted ideal figure, and think they look great! But because of the way they dress. I love it when I see a plump woman who is dressed like she loves herself–snazzy clothes and bright accessories.

    I’m really obsessed right now more with fashion instead of fitness. I’m a fashion numbskull, but I really want to look less drab, and to wear clothes that flatter.

    I believe Oprah needs to be careful about what she says because she DOES set herself up to be a role model, at least from what I hear (don’t watch TV much).

    Not that I think this is the worst thing she could have said; I tend to agree that it’s the kind of statement that supports the negative body image thing going on with women nowadays.

  56. Wow, good question. Because actually, I have thought this very same thing myself. And out loud. I live in Florida and refused for the longest time to wear tank tops and when I got even larger, I would even not like wearing short sleeves! But it’s FLORIDA! And most of my crowd knew/knows about my arm complex. I’m thinking she’s probably just outward about expressing her same insecurity. However, she’s famous, I’m not. My reach is that of a tiny circle. Her reach is global. Does she have a responsibility to be an example to love herself outwardly too because she is such a rolemodel/icon? Maybe. But I guess even Oprah can forget…

  58. Hannah, I wonder, after reading your comment if you would have waited (as I did) to see if ANYONE would say anything to Oprah.
    I was eager to see if the panel of experts would lovingly call her on it (ok I was pretty sure that wasnt happening) OR if anyone would say the expectedanticipated: NO THEY ARENT!

    Tisha? LAUGHED OUT LOUD at your last sentence.

    Dara? we.need.to.get.usallonoprah’scouch. AND. OPRAH. YOUR. BOOK.

    Melissa? good and well taken point. there are, indeed, far more damaging things she could have said and the woman does STUNNING AMOUNTS of good.

    christieo? you’re right with the maybe. and, if she’s not feelin’ it, should she have to pretend for us? perhaps not.

    Miz.

  59. I think she was trying to be “real” being that some people think she is wealthy and succesful but she still has her own demons to deal with. Being that I have big ol fat arms it is just the truth i dont not feel comfortable showing my arms but love my legs…

  61. YOU NAILED IT VIV.

    that was all I wanted.

    as others have said above *anything* along the lines of glancing down at her tatas and making a joke about how she loves her girls and wants the emphasis there.

    (marc? we always welcome the male comments. especially those with daughters. hinthint.)
    Miz.

  63. While it’s absolutely okay to have body parts that you’re less satisfied with, I don’t think it’s okay to imply that it should dictate what you wear and to always cover them up. We are not here for decoration! I used to always wear t-shirts and jeans, even in the worst of a missouri summer, because I didn’t like my legs and arms. I don’t want anyone to feel like it’s more important to look good or hide the ‘big fat ugly’ parts of your body than to be comfortable.

    Oprah may have meant it as a ‘this is a part of me I’m less happy with but that’s fine,’ but I (and I’m sure many, many others) cannot hear things like this without immediately feeling like I’m not worth the space I take up. I think we all have a responsibility not to perpetuate these attitudes towards our bodies.

    Some others have said that saying she has ‘big fat arms’ makes her one of us. Why is hating and disparaging a body part necessary to be ‘normal?’ Why is accepting one’s body getting dangerously close to ‘arrogant?’ There must be another way!

    The problem for me is not that she has a part of her body that she doesn’t like, it’s the language she chose to describe it. When I heard you say those words in the video, it sounded like someone being slapped to me. Then again, after reading BL’s comment, I feel like maybe I should accept that perfect or not, that’s where Oprah is in her journey. I think it’s really great that this conversation is happening…

  65. The ‘I have fat arms’ thing is so ingrained in fat women that it’s hard to be conscious enough in front of millions of people and forget NOT to make derisive, self-deprecating remarks about one’s arms when you wake up with them sagging every morning.

    Oprah may have regretted saying it once it flew out of her mouth but what do you do in that case? Say, “oops!”

    She is someone a lot of folks look up to and when I hear her admit she isn’t perfect, that’s fine with me. And when I hear her admit her foibles (love that word!), it makes her come across to me as human. Like she’s sittin up in theeere trying to be everything to everybody but she is also a human who struggles and has fat arms and admits she has fat arms. Personally I wish she’d let them show. What’s someone gonna do? Call the police?

    My boyfriend’s daughter sometimes reaches over and pokes my arm. I lift weights. I have muscles. But when I was much fatter, my arms stretched and I still have the dreaded arm sag (under all the muscles). But I am not hiding it anymore than I’m going to hide my ass.
    If someone doesn’t like it, they can look away. I have also joked about putting someone’s eye out from across the room with my underarm flab.

  66. I think that she probably was trying to be the everywoman, but any celebrity should be careful about what they say, because they ARE role models.

    One of the happiest moments I had was when I was talking to this girl with the lowest self esteem I’d ever come across, and we were hanging out at a bar with some friends. She was really hot (literally- but figuratively too!) but wouldn’t take off her sweater because she hates her arms. And then the happy moment came when I managed to convince her of her beauty and she took off her sweater. (‘course, it might have just been because she’d had a few drinks by then…:)).

  67. I love your Oprah posts but I am one who yells at my tv all the time and am always excited to have other people to talk about shows with.

    I agree with you but lots of people disagree with me.

    I do think that celebrities hold themselves up as role models the moment the begin to make their living off us!

    It is ok if oprah doesnt like her arms and thinks that they are fat but I think she should have said it and then said something about it.
    not let it go!!!

  68. I think she WAS attempting to be “one of us”. I also think that her struggles with weight make it easier for people to connect with her despite her tremendous weight. But yes, ideally, she should have acknowledged what she said.

  69. I don’t think Oprah is ‘attempting’ anything. I think it was more a case of a spontaneous statement about her own body image… the type we all have consciously or unconsciously every day.

    Sure, this is a media issue. We’re all bombarded with ideal bodies every day, and even the ‘stars’ fall into that trap. But it’s also a social issue, and there’s evidence it’s a biological issue as well (Monkey Pay Per View: Adaptive Valuation of Social Images by Rhesus Monkeys : http://neuroeconomics.duke.edu/files/deaner_platt_2005.pdf )

    The problem isn’t that we want to be more attractive (that might be a good biological adaptation) , the problem is our ideologies over what “attractive” means. In Rhesus monkeys, attractiveness has to do with genetically desirable features. In humans, it doesn’t. It has to do with youth and extremes in physical development (or lack there of). Our icons of beauty get younger and younger, thinner and thinner, until they lose all semblance of mature femininity.

    Does Oprah cause that? No. Does she buy into it? I’d say it’s pretty obvious that subconsciously she does, though if you asked her about it point blank I’d bet dollars to donuts (um, you can have the donuts anyway) that she doesn’t.

    Honestly? It’s something so ingrained in society and something those of us dissatisfied with our bodies are so familiar with, that I bet most of us wouldn’t have even noted the comment until you brought it up.

  70. You have really reached me today.

    I bet that she didn’t even realize she was saying that. I am the WORST about doing this. And, really, it is something I have to stop. I have a 3rd grade son and a 4 yr old daughter. I make self-deprecating jokes constantly. My family now laughs at them. And, they don’t know it, but that kind of stings inside. And, it is my own fault really–because I’m the one who does this to myself. They don’t ever make fun of my weight, mind you, but I think I’m teaching my kids to devalue themselves by doing this. While I knew the negative self-talk had to stop for myself, I never really focused in on what it is teaching them about themselves and how to feel–and that is something I am very embarassed to admit.

    Thank you–message received. And, for what it is worth–Oprah should have kept that to herself for the reason you state. But, on the other hand, I watch Rachel Ray who jokes about her big butt and I also think it is kind of a way of a celeb to let us know that they’re real–they get airbrushed on those magazines and they have their flaws. But, still…save that for a show on self-image or something like that instead of the off-the-cuff statements like she did…

  71. Honestly? It’s something so ingrained in society and something those of us dissatisfied with our bodies are so familiar with, that I bet most of us wouldn’t have even noted the comment until you brought it up.

    agreed.
    and that makes me sad.

    Miz, who is working HARD on no longer making off hand remarks about how little she earns and how that, at times, can be what she ERRONEOUSLY feels defines her self-worth. My daughter doesnt hear me saying that I LOVE WHAT I DO and that WORKING ALOT FOR LOW PAY IS VERY WORTH IT.

    all she hears is NO MONEY MAKING EQUALS NO VALUE.

  72. Such an interesting discussion!

    Honestly, I am not very old (26) but the older I get, the sicker and less compassionate (I’m sorry, forgive me, I’m being honest) I become about older women whom I otherwise respect negative self-talking about their BODIES.

    That includes you, Oprah. Honestly, I don’t really care about how fat your arms are.

    Now, if she had said something like “I’m very self-conscious about my arms,” that would be one thing, but when she says “fat old arms” she insults everybody whose arms look like hers, or fatter, and that’s something I’m particularly sensitive about. Is negative self-talk voiced extremely egotistical by nature? Often that’s the way it feels to me…it just makes me want to speak up and say, “OK, but is it okay for me to like my ARMS? Is it okay for me to like my thighs even if they’re bigger than yours? Is it okay for me to be okay with my imperfect body?”

  73. Funny you bring up Oprah today as I talk about her too.

    I personally didn’t hear Oprah say that comment as it has been awhile since I have seen her show. But if I were talking to here face to face I would say…”get over yourself lady. You don’t look good skinny, you need a little meat on your bones” HA!

    I don’t think I would have been bothered by that comment. Even the super famous have their issues that money can’t fix. That is her cross to bear.

    I also don’t put celebrities on my role model list. They are human just like everyone else. I had something else to add…but my brain is not functioning at the moment….

  74. wow, such a great topic with a ton of responses that I don’t have the time to read right now. (kids! go to sleep so mommy can blog!)

    Anyway, I am definitely guilty of self bashing, but usually it’s presented as humor as as way to make MYSELF feel better. I’m self conscious about certain body parts and since they seem so HUGE to me, I think if I point it out to others in a joking way, maybe they won’t notice. So I can relate to Oprah, she has/still struggles and it bothers her. I do think though she should choose her wording carefully though for that very reason. So many girls look up to her and she has the power of influence.

  75. oh work out mommy….how I miss ye after our weekend together 😉

    That is all.
    For now anyway.
    The Tornado is tornado’ing.
    Miz.

  76. wow, great video AND convo, carla (and SO nice to meet you last weekend!!). I have to side with you…I think as quote-un-quote “role models” in the public eye, we need to be sensitive to what we say, as it DOES effect women! What you said about a girl watching it from home saying “wow my arms look just like hers…do I have big fat arms, too?!” really hit home. I know that no one is perfect and we all don’t say the right things 24/7, but I do think that this is such a sensitivity in this day and age. We want to embrace our bodies, not criticize them (even if its a joke–its on public tv!). Thanks for this!

    Jenna

  77. Now I’m even more depressed. I haven’t saved the world like Oprah. Well…I saved that spider that one time that was crawling on my windshield. I could have totally blasted it w/ the spayer but I didn’t.

    Yeah…that’s totally just like Oprah.

    What were we talking about?

  78. I hear what you’re saying but no individual can be everything to everyone. She owns her show but surely doesn’t personally oversee every aspect of its production. I would think that there are folks who look for things like that, and ordinarily edit them out along with comments that can be misconstrued by almost anyone. It’s got to be a tough gig.

    And I hid my arms whilst typing this. 😉

  79. I think what Oprah said was just her being herself… But she should also watch it when she says things like that. We shouldn’t be teaching young girls that they have to be skinny and have pencil thin arms to be acceptable, but we also have to remember Oprah is human, and we all have parts of our bodies we don’t like!

    And I just wanted to say, if I feel uncomfortable with a part of my body and I won’t wear certain clothes because of it, it’s not because I give a lick what other people are going to think about me, it’s because I just don’t like what I see when I look in the mirror. A lot of people make the assumption that Oprah doesn’t go sleeveless to save offending other people… she’s probably just trying to save offending herself when she looks in the mirror.

  80. I disagree. I think it was a human moment for Oprah and that is why I watch the show!

    I love those moments.

    GREAT CONVERSATION HERE!

  81. (I’m still giggling at the screenshotthing of me at the beginning. eyes closed and all)

    jenna? SO NICE to meet you as well and, if youve managed to miss eatliverun (for shame!) click on Jenna’s name and check out her amazing food blog.

    Greta you are SO OPRAH. The spider is telling everyone.

    Hilary? you’re right about the tough gig and, Im sure, I lose some of the benevolence I SHOULD have by virtue of how much Id love to have the gig…

    Laura? talia? thank you. I do think that it was a human moment and, in a way, we (I?) should long for more of these instead of wanting her to censor.

    if only it *could* be all human oprah all the time…

    Miz.

  82. It has to be hard to live in a “fishbowl” all the time. There’s just no way to do it perfectly. I would imagine that, role model or not, she’s just like you and me with insecurities and the whole bit. It would be hard not to give the world a glimpse of that every now and then when you’re in the limelight almost constantly. I think Oprah is beautiful, but I have lots of criticisms for myself. The flipside would probably also be true.

  83. I think she was being real. She doesn’t like her upper arms; she’s allowed. (heck I dont’ like my mid-section! It takes a major push of honesty to show it to anyone). We are allowed.

    Do we all need to have a moment of truthfulness where we share with world our perceived weakest part? (I did post my midsection on Flickr.. and got young women who envied me. It made me rethink my position.. but I still hate my midsection). Or can we simply accept that there are parts of our body we love and dress to show off, yet other parts that we choose to camouflage? It’s OK.

    I don’t hate the vessel (it’s the only one I’ve got). it’s done great things for me, and I hope continues to do great things well into the future. Doesn’t mean I won’t close my eyes the final time still not fond of that one part of my body.

  84. i don’t know if i can read into it without watching oprah regularly. it is pretty well-known that oprah has had some weight issues, so it could have been negative self-talk, and maybe she was being an everywoman, but sometimes i say things like that to diffuse the awkwardness in a moment or just because i’m not thinking or something. in a way it’s bringing attention away from her and sort of killing the conversation so that she can move on to something else. but actually, oprah expressing that she does not like her arms is less problematic to me than the implicit beauty standards with models and ‘photoshopping,’ where an unattainable, and in some cases, unhealthy body, is unconsciously made into a goal without even outwardly knowing it…. but just because it is there.

  85. I’m another one who just thought how sad it is that even the magnificent O puts down her body. Of course, I suppose we all know she’s struggled with her weight issues so it shouldn’t be a surprise. I also think it’s refreshing to see that human side of her sometimes, and I think regardless of that comment, she is an immensely better role model for women and young girls than some beautiful young actress who gets by on looks alone.

  86. Well, I am a guy and I don’t have a daughter but I’ll comment anyways 🙂

    I would say that Oprah should be more careful about what she says. We’re talking about a wonderful spokesperson who could have, quite frankly, influenced the vote of millions when it comes to the presidential election. And that’s influencing men and women over the age of 18?! Could you imagine how influential she would be to young women under the age of 18?

    Of course I just threw a random number out there, but I bet you would be hard pressed to argue that she didn’t influence a ton of people’s vote.

    Miz, in my opinion, you hit the nail on the head when you said “…without then focusing in on that…”. It’s perfectly fine for her to make those comments, but I think that the only way for it to actually help her viewers with a comment like that is to get to the root of it. Dive into WHY she said that and what people should take away from it.

    But, that’s just a guys’ two cents and I can’t ever really know how it feels to be in that position, so who knows.

    Welcome back!

    All the Best,

    Andrew R

  87. She could have phrased it differently: “I feel that my arms are not my best feature and I think we should all try to highlight our best features.” Saying “I have big fat arms” is pretty harsh, and I think it’s important not to be harsh with ourselves or others.

  88. Someone higher up in the comment chain said it’s not really OK to be so accepting of ourselves because our weight can adversely affect our health. I think until we accept what our bodies have become without shredding our inner selves, we have no power to change our bodies.

    Until I accepted myself and stopped (OK, dramatically reduced) the incredibly negative self-talk, all I did was gain. Now I’m starting to lose weight and beginning to exercise. And guess what – I have big fat arms. But I decided that I don’t care what people think of them. I wear tank tops when I’m hot — even (horrors!) in public. But I wouldn’t wear one to church or if I were going to be on TV.

    I understand your concern over Oprah’s comment about her arms. Like it or not she IS a role model. But sometimes we can be a little too PC. It would have been better if she had said she didn’t like her arms instead of call them big and fat. But to say she should offset that remark by talking about highlighting positive things about her body…. Come on. There’s a lot more to a woman than her body. And I think Oprah tries to model that.

  89. you are a very insightful woman mizfit…great conversation going on over here!

    thanks for sharing what you shared in comments 26 & 49. its hard to believe you would have insecurities about yourself, but that would be ignorant to think thats true! you are a great role model of self-bashing resistment.

    i do think oprah holds a great deal of responsibility. she has so much influence – she mentions one book and it becomes the next top-seller. but i also do have to sympathize for her, that along with the perks (rich and fame) it must be extremely stressful to have that sort of power and responsibility. maybe she is in a semi-rebeliious “i’m human & real too, you know” stage. i know that in the past i was in a position where i was in a leadership role and others looked up to me. over the years though it got very pressuring to me and when i “messed up” i felt like i needed to hide it or i would let others down. that got extremely stressful and eventually i turned into that rebellious mode like “hey i’m human too and i’m not gonna hide it anymore” and i just wanted the freedom to be myself and real and not hide anything. i’m not sure if that was the best choice, but thats what my mindset evolved to. i guess long comment short, i can’t bash her too much for it.

    sorry such a long comment, and not even during the primetime discussion time lol!

  90. I agree 100%! Oprah should totally watch her negative self-talk. It’s what she’s been teaching her viewers with this whole Eckhart Tolle series!

    I love me some Oprah and when I saw that, I thought the exact same thing but then felt so sorry for her too. Everybody has their demons and no amount of money can fix the insides.

    Monday is my favorite MizFit day!

  91. I doubt Oprah really thought through all the consequences and implications of her statement; she probably does genuinely dislike her arms. I’d like to think that comments like this might be encouraging–maybe someone will think “hey, Oprah is awesome, but still she doesn’t like things about herself. Maybe I’m not a freak.”

    But realistically …. it’s just another example of the pervasiveness of self-directed trash-talk. Women with larger arms will feel bad about their “big fat arms”. Women with smaller arms will worry about developing fat arms. Etc. I think Oprah should be more aware of the fact that she’s taking part in the unrealistic, perfectionist culture, and should try to be an example of self-acceptance. That’s not about what she says; it’s about what she does–never wearing sleeveless shirts, for example.

    I can’t criticize too much; it was only a few years ago I didn’t wear shorts or sleeveless shirts because I was extremely self-conscious. I can’t even pinpoint what changed; just one day I got tired of being uncomfortable in the heat and decided that if someone doesn’t like my arms, they can just avert their stupid eyes. 🙂

    btw, Carla–I need directions if I’m coming over to clean. 😉

  92. GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY I LOVE YOU GUYS (yep. used that term instead of “you all” just for you Andrew R. thanks for the comment).

    The only thing which would have made my morning brighter would have been Oprah commenting and even telling the Miz to shut the hell up and leave her negative self chatter ALONE.

    I long to know what really was going through her mind inthatmoment.

    (Anyone watch 30 Rock?)

    thanks so much for taking the time to share your opinions/insights.

    Im still pondering the whole thing as well…
    Miz.

  94. sorry i didn’t catch this yesterday, busy busy. i’m a little shocked, but i’m thinking that she didn’t think before saying that… it’s how she really feels and it slipped out. BUT i really have no idea 🙂 Sure, I wish she had been a little bit more careful, but noone’s perfect… (does she do the show live?)

  95. I think, ttfn330, that it is taped? only because it is more of a big deal on fridays when the show is live.

    yet another reason Im SO LONGING for insight into it all…to know if Im the only quirky one who caught the off hand remark.

    all that.

    Gayle? you busy? can you give us any insights?

    Miz.

  96. On one hand, I can see how these types of comments coming from an icon like Oprah can lead to body image issues in a day and age where so many equate how we look to our self worth.

    BUT, I can also see how making comments like that make her seem more ‘real’ to her audience. I think maybe in that instance she is saying something more like, we all have things we don’t necessarily LOVE about our bodies and in fashion you can choose to accentuate the things you do love and put less emphasis on the other things.

    Either way, she could have worded it much better!

  97. I think O may have been honest for her. I do think it’s important to add something to statements like that because so many do see her as a role model. As for myself, I am fighting the Bat Wing battle & have not won by a long shot. But, I am wearing short sleeves again. You don’t like my arms, don’t look. I am tired of being uncomfortable to “please” others.

  98. I love Oprah so much I would never notice her “big fat arms.” It’s like my nephew with a cleft lip–I love him too much, I don’t see the scar, just his handsome little face. BUT it breaks my heart when he says something negative about the scar. And I spose that’s how I’d react to Oprah. Just wanna give her a big ole hug and assure her that those arms are fabulous. That said, it sounds like she’s accepted her arms for what they are and deals with it accordingly (which is to say in a way that makes her comfortable). Can’t that be healthy? To go ahead and not like something but find a way to be comfortable with it? My nephew may never embrace the scar on his lip but I’m sure he’ll find a way (because he is this sort of kid) to live with Oprahesque confidence anyway.

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